63 - Fatal Frame

[matt]

In this video I talk about the inspiration I drew from Fatal Frame.

[Grabthehoopka]

I think that indescribable difference between Outlast's atmosphere and scarier games is that Outlast was too straightforward. I was originally thinking that it was because it was missing a supernatural element (that psychic nanomachine demonhost...thing...that they exposition dump on the player at the end doesn't count), since supernatural things are, by their very nature, unnatural, and you leave the player more in the dark as to the "rules" that they follow or don't follow, and so the player feels much more vulnerable and helpless since things are happening to them and around them that they can't comprehend, control, or predict. I was gonna say that the ultimate proof of this would be in Condemned, since the two games have a lot in common, but Condemned did have a slight supernatural element to it that permeated throughout the whole game. But then, I thought of Manhunt. Manhunt has one of the most oppressive atmospheres of any game I've ever played, and it's extremely straightforward with no supernatural elements.

And so, I've concluded that the reason why Outlast isn't as scary is that the developers have too much of a presence. It didn't have that flair that Silent Hill had that made the game, the visuals and sound, and the whole atmosphere seem effortless; all throughout Outlast, I could feel the developers wracking their brains trying to think of ways to scare the player, I could feel them charting out the path they wanted you to go down, and all the planning and design that they put into it, and in every overly gory, gross-out scare I could feel them trying to scare the player without completely understanding how to scare the player. It's stealth-based, but enemy encounters are way more common than they are in, say, Amnesia, so by necessity they had to establish stricter rules and simplify the AI behavior to make it less frustrating, and in every enemy encounter, I was always thinking about it as a game, and it lost its atmosphere.

The worst example of this is the part where several of your character's fingers get chopped off. Afterwords, no big deal is made of it. The character doesn't even begin to think about making any attempt to do something about it. He doesn't clean it off, disinfect it, dress it, or react to the excruciating pain that jamming your fingerless stumps against a door frame, the ground, or any surface you're climbing on would cause, and it's not like they're hiding it, we can see his hands all throughout the rest of the game, so the only reason I can think of for this train of thought is that the developers either didn't think things through, and just wanted to have the one part where the fingers get chopped off cause they thought it would be scary without thinking about or wanting to do anything about the consequences that would arise from that, OR, they thought that sidetracking the all-important quest of finding a way out in order to treat your horrific wounds would ruin the pacing they set out for you, or they thought it would be too boring, or, they thought the player would think the character was a wuss for caring too much about his flesh wound, or they just flat out didn't care.
On the contrary, I think that trying to treat your wounds as well as you can given the circumstances would be more horrifying, seeing as how
a.) I think that's the first thing most players would think to do, so they would understand and sympathize, and
b.) trying and failing to take care of a wound because of how horrible and dirty the place is is scarier than not taking care of it at all because the only people who would ignore a wound like that are either braindead or a robot, so, it takes them right out of the game.

Obviously, there are more examples than this one, but this one stuck out to me the most as taking me out of the experience.

So, I think the primary difference is that the game developers ended up putting themselves front and center. I was constantly thinking about where the developers wanted me to go rather than where I would go, I was thinking about what the developers were thinking and planning, the successes and failures of the developer's ideas, and generally thinking more about the making of the game than the game itself. Every time I started getting into it, something would pull me out.
So, anyway. It sounds like you enjoyed Outlast more than I did, but I think that's what separates Outlast from the big leagues: the developers don't have the skill to make it seem as effortless as the others do.

[matt]

I think you are spot on in a lot of your comments about Outlast. Personally, I much prefer the supernatural, and was bummed they didn't do anything supernatural. I agree the stuff jammed in at the end doesn't count.

I think perhaps feeling the developer's presence is a symptom of a greater problem - lack of immersion. They basically tell you want to do. Collect 3 fuses, get the elevator key card, etc, etc. That makes it feel pretty gamey. It's a shame because I think they did an admirable job with immersion in other aspects like the camera and even the animation of putting it up to your face. To me, floating objects with no hands hurts immersion, so I was really pleased they animated that.

That wasn't enough to overcome the fact that they have to tell you what to do. Ideally, the game is designed such that you can discover what to do. We were very careful with object placement in Neverending Nightmares to make sure you always have an idea of what your objective is.

[Harry Sunderland]

Can we just mention the elephant in the room here and talk about that shirt?

[ranger_lennier]

I'd like to try out the Fatal Frame series, but haven't really had the right systems for it. It sounds like XBox is best at least for Fatal Frame 1. I have a 360, but have also heard the horror stories about backwards compatibility when I looked into it. Did that ever get any better? I'd like to get a PS3 when the price drops more, since I do feel like I'm missing out on a lot of good exclusives at this point. Maybe I'll just wait to get it on PSN. It's only $4, which is less than I'd pay to get a used XBox disc.

[Grabthehoopka]

I think you are spot on in a lot of your comments about Outlast. Personally, I much prefer the supernatural, and was bummed they didn't do anything supernatural. I agree the stuff jammed in at the end doesn't count.

I think perhaps feeling the developer's presence is a symptom of a greater problem - lack of immersion. They basically tell you want to do. Collect 3 fuses, get the elevator key card, etc, etc. That makes it feel pretty gamey. It's a shame because I think they did an admirable job with immersion in other aspects like the camera and even the animation of putting it up to your face. To me, floating objects with no hands hurts immersion, so I was really pleased they animated that.

That wasn't enough to overcome the fact that they have to tell you what to do. Ideally, the game is designed such that you can discover what to do. We were very careful with object placement in Neverending Nightmares to make sure you always have an idea of what your objective is.

It's a shame, really, cause I really liked some of their ideas. I loved the camera and nightvision as well, and I really liked how you could see your character's entire body when you looked down, and how he would put his hand on the wall or door frame when you turned a corner. I also liked the setting, and some of the locations really did creep me out, like those rooms early on that are completely dark except for the bluish light coming from the computer monitors, the icy sewer system, and the part later on when you're outside in the courtyard in the rain. I don't regret playing it.

If the problem can be traced back to them being a little too hands-on with the player, as a veteran of the industry, does this smell like executive meddling to you?

[matt]

Can we just mention the elephant in the room here and talk about that shirt?

Tuxedo shirts are hilarious!

I've played several Xbox games on the Xbox 360 without too many issues. You can look at the list here, which seems to list all the issues:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xb ... h_Xbox_360
It looks like Fatal Frame 1 has the following issue: "Some cutscenes just show a black screen with audio still playing" but otherwise works. Fatal Frame 2 seems like it works.

I don't think Outlast had any executive meddling. While it had high production values, they had no publisher, so I don't think there was anything to meddle. I think it is just difficult to design a game where people know what to do without telling them.

For example, the placement of things in Neverending Nightmares is very deliberate. The stairway is shown early on, so that you know when you have the candle, you know what to do with it. It's placed close to the bedroom, so if you get killed, it doesn't push you too far back.

If you don't plan on how to lead a player through the game, then you are stuck with less than elegant solutions like help messages.

[Grabthehoopka]

For example, the placement of things in Neverending Nightmares is very deliberate. The stairway is shown early on, so that you know when you have the candle, you know what to do with it. It's placed close to the bedroom, so if you get killed, it doesn't push you too far back.

If you don't plan on how to lead a player through the game, then you are stuck with less than elegant solutions like help messages.

I remember reading a column that someone wrote about the first part of the first level of Super Mario Brothers and how it teaches you everything you need to know about the "rules" of the game world in, like, 10 seconds, and it blew my mind.

You start on a blank screen with some stuff along the right side, so the player knows to go to the right. There's a few blocks, a goomba, and a pipe. The player must learn to either jump on or over goombas to defeat/avoid them. You get items by jumping and hitting the bottom of blocks, but that's sort of an unintuitive mechanic that players wouldn't immediately think to do, so they put the blocks right over where the goomba is so the player is likely to accidentally hit them and discover it on their own. One of them has a mushroom in it, which starts moving forward as soon as it's out. The player doesn't know this and won't be prepared for it, but there's a pipe to the right that blocks its path once it falls off the blocks and directs it back the other way, so the player can get it and learn what they do. And so on and so forth.

That was the first time I learned about deliberate game design like that, and the first time when I realized that good game designers are artists and genuises.

[AironNeil]

The PSN store is having a Halloween sale and Fatal Frame 1 & 2 were 4 dollars I think, although I'm not sure if the sale is over yet or not, but I think it lasts till the 4th of November. At any rate, I've actually never heard of the series until I saw it on sale at the PSN store. I'm really liking it so far, having to take pictures of ghosts that are coming towards you is so tense I love it.

[matt]

If I didn't already have both games, I'd pick them up. When I get more time, maybe I'll pick up Fatal Frame III, which is now on PS3.