Beta 0.9 Discussion [SPOILERS]

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matt
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Beta 0.9 Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by matt » Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:30 pm

A new build is live! We wanted to get it out on Friday, but Eduardo needed more time for the new sounds.

The game is pretty much done other than a few polish items (improving some sound, art, and adding in some more interactions). I hope you like it.

Also, my apologies if you are playing on OUYA. The framerate is really terrible in parts. I'm not sure when it got so terrible, (I could have sworn it used to run better) but we didn't have enough time to iron them out before we shipped this demo. Hopefully we can sort it out before our real release, but it's possible we just have too much art... :-/

So as always, I welcome your thoughts and feedback! In particular, I'd be interested to hear about the changes to the branch point for Childish Things. I totally stole all of your ideas! hahahah

Also, I'd be interested to hear what you guys thing of how Childish Things branches into both Destroyed Dreams and Wayward Dreamer. No matter what you did in the last build, it would dump you into Destroyed Dreams since that's all we had done, but now there is a way to go to two different levels. I think it's "easier" to get to Wayward Dreamer, which is fine with me, but I'm curious about what you think.
-Matt Gilgenbach
Lead Frightener at Infinitap Games

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JPrice
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Re: Beta 0.9 Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by JPrice » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:27 pm

Well I'd love to try out the new nightmare but I can't for the life of me find it :o
Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places but I went through "Childish Things" like three times and couldn't find anything. When someone finds out do let me know please as I'd like to try it out hahaa :)
"Always look on the bright side of life"
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matt
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Re: Beta 0.9 Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by matt » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:43 pm

Well, the branching criteria is different than the rest of the levels. I can offer some hints!
There are actual branches in some of the forest levels. Are they not obvious enough? As to the correct route through the forest, think of the objective in the level. Try to find the paths that best line up with the objective...

Did I say too much? Did anyone figure it out on their own? Assuming we designed it right, odds are that more people will find it than not on their first try, but perhaps we didn't make the level clear enough... :-/
-Matt Gilgenbach
Lead Frightener at Infinitap Games

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JPrice
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Re: Beta 0.9 Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by JPrice » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:53 pm

Well I figured that it was something to do with the forest paths. Here's a list of things I tried for reference:
- Going down in every instance possible up until the end
- Going up in every instance possible up until the end
- Going up and around the large tomb, but that was a dead end
- Backtracking from Gabby's corpse as far as I could but the level loops (which I found really cool btw hahaa)

There's probably a pattern there somewhere though that I'm missing so I'll try again tomorrow!
"Always look on the bright side of life"
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Re: Beta 0.9 Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by matt » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:44 pm

Well, assuming there is not a bug (I guess I should have checked it better):
the trick is to pay attention to WHAT the differences between the paths are at the junctions... If you try both paths, do you notice a difference?
-Matt Gilgenbach
Lead Frightener at Infinitap Games

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AironNeil
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Re: Beta 0.9 Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by AironNeil » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:44 pm

If I got it right it's on the path that has a red pair of eyes before seeing a dead Gabby. At first, I thought they were the same, but after I saw one dead and when a different path I saw Gabby still alive on another path. If that's a glitch, then you should leave it since it kind of freaked me out

Long story short I found the branch, they look the same for the most part which may have mixed up JPrice. The introduction to the new level was great though I was really getting confused at the part where young Thomas woke up in the exact same bed after finding the dead Gabby - then the hand got me, haha

So the last new enemy was great! I was always wondering why the dolls never did anything before I just knew that they had to be leading up to something else in the game other than as creepy backgrounds. The whole thing where the background became the enemy had a great effect. The first time a doll starts coming at you right when you leave a room was a great first encounter to the enemy, but I went back into the room to see if it would do it again on a whim, and it did. I feel like it shouldn't do it again if you go back into the room and exit again.

The survey was still for Beta 0.8 is there a link to the 0.9 survey?

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Re: Beta 0.9 Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by matt » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:13 pm

Crap. I thought I updated the link correctly. Here is the survey. It is a fancy one with multiple pages and branches based on what nightmares you played. Was it wrong in the kickstarter post or in the game? I could have sworn I got the right one in the game.

While you found the new level, the branching conditions are more... complicated... Perhaps too complicated? I'm curious if anyone will figure out exactly how it works... I thought it was going to be too obvious, but I guess everything seems that way when it's your idea...
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Re: Beta 0.9 Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by JPrice » Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:44 am

Right so I think I figured it out after getting it to trigger successfully twice in a row:
Basically I assume you have to always follow the forest paths that have Lil' Gabby on them. If you go on a forest path that doesn't have her on it and then advance to the next screen from said path, you automatically set yourself on the opposite track. So in this instance the pattern is basically: Up, Down, Down, Up, Down for getting on the same path as Lil' Gabby everytime. It makes sense now, given the content of the new nightmare revolves around Gabby and what not. Hopefully I have that right now and I didn't do it on accident hahaha :D
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Re: Beta 0.9 Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by ElTipejoLoco » Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:58 am

matt wrote:While you found the new level, the branching conditions are more... complicated... Perhaps too complicated? I'm curious if anyone will figure out exactly how it works... I thought it was going to be too obvious, but I guess everything seems that way when it's your idea...
Assuming it's been figured out by JPrice and I correctly, it's not immediately obvious, as it feels kind of natural not to see the non-asthmatic Gabby wait up when she's insisting that Tommy hurry and run, and there's not really foot prints or something to tell which path she might've taken. That aside, on a continued playthroughs through the nightmare will eventually reveal it so long as the player isn't forgetful of which paths he took on previous runs.
Just checking: The correct method is just to make sure you were following young Gabby every time you're about to switch screens at a non-fork-nor-dead-end path, right? It seems that ensuring you're doing so also blows out one candle of the five pentagram candles behind the mausoleum (unless I'm misremembering), and I guess it might be possible to backtrack from that point or even hit Restart to reawaken in the forest makeshift bed if you accidentally missed a Gabby path. Also, it becomes obvious whether or not you've triggered the Wayward Dreamer path successfully if the Gabby corpse you discover is a child instead of an adult.

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Re: Beta 0.9 Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by matt » Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:39 am

You guys got it! :-D There are 3 wrong paths you can take where there is no Gabby. (The dead ends don't count). If you get 2 wrong, then you see adult Lydia in the graveyard, and it goes to Destroyed Dreams rather than Wayward Dreamer.

We don't show footsteps because we want it to feel frustrating that Gabby has left you, and you don't know where to go. You have to make a choice, and one way is wrong because Gabby isn't there and the other way is right because Gabby is right there waiting for you. I expected people to feel out both paths before committing to one, and since Gabby starts saying "follow me", the right path would be obvious.

The original idea for the level was a big sort of maze, but I figured it'd be difficult to guide the player through a maze especially with no directions and help prompts. I'm really glad I didn't go that route because it seems like it might still be a little too hard... :-/

Instead, after you advance through one of the branches, it changes the portal target in the main path, so if you take the first wrong path, it puts you back on track, but if you backtrack, you'll be back on the wrong path. Had you taking the right path to the next section, backtracking takes you to the right path, so we connect the levels on the fly.

If you just randomly choose paths, there should be a 50% chance that you get to Childish. If you take the lower path every time, you should still make it there (even though you'll go on one "wrong" pathway). I'm not sure why that didn't work for JPrice.

So what do you guys think? At this point, if I change it such that you need to get 3 wrong to find the other ending, then there'll only be a 12.5% chance of finding the other branch. I suppose that's not the end of the world, but it makes it tougher for those who want to get the final achievement...

Also, I haven't heard much feedback on the final level. Do you guys like it?
-Matt Gilgenbach
Lead Frightener at Infinitap Games

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