200 - Game Length and Content

Developer diaries about creating Neverending Nightmares.
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evilkinggumby
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Re: 200 - Game Length and Content

Post by evilkinggumby »

matt wrote:If you had specific questions, I wouldn't mind answering them, but that's not quite the same as the commentary where I go through the themes and meanings of the game.
All things considered, that's mighty kind of you. I am considering that offer, but in seeing that when I explained my perception and opinion of your game and it's quality, you took it as an affront and unfair portrayal, I don't think I want to add insult to injury and potentially waste your time or aggravate you anymore than I have.

All I ask is that you consider what I said not as a " haha time to stick it to the man and insult his work!!!" but more of a " food for thought: if I see this, others may as well". If over time you see reviews and discussions about the game change from the initial "YAY" that you are seeing (which I suspect is due to all the backers and anxious fans awaiting the full release and a bi-product of sheer excitement) to something more sinister and dour, everything I pointed out MAY offer insight as to why.

Whereas if over time this becomes a cult classic (ha wouldn't that be a neat thing.. to create a cult hit?) and so the reviews ultimately scale towards "EPIC YAY" than all of this is just me and who cares, right? :)

I will say that I will chime in on other threads and likely on all subsequent video releases with input. If you are not keen on getting my take, feel free to perma ban me here and I'll take the hint.
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miumiaou
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Re: 200 - Game Length and Content

Post by miumiaou »

basically, even if it's hard to heard them, all critics made in a way of making things progress are constructive. If we disagree, we'll discuss about it, and it's the same things you do. personally, I'm not going to ban you (or anyone) just because you opened your mouth to say what you wanted to say and make things progress and I think all peoples in this forum think the same
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matt
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Re: 200 - Game Length and Content

Post by matt »

As you mentioned in another thread, I do take criticism seriously, and a lot of my recent development diaries have been taking a look at the criticisms and trying to see what I could do better next time. Perhaps I just took some remarks you made personally - things about how the imagery is meaningless and how the game looks manufactured with no love.

While I take it seriously, I hope you'll understand that we probably won't change everything to make you happy with it. While you are critical of our animation style, I've only heard praise for it from others. I'm not talking about just on the forum (which I will admit is an extremely supportive and positive environment. I love you guys!), but at events like PAX and IndieCade.

On Neverending Nightmares, we wanted to make the story really vague to not distract from the emotional content. I think the next game will probably have more of a story focus, so we can add items to look at that will further the story like you suggested. I don't know if it will be possible because of budget constraints to make a big enough living and breathing world to satisfy you, but we will certainly try.
-Matt Gilgenbach
Lead Frightener at Infinitap Games
ranger_lennier
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Re: 200 - Game Length and Content

Post by ranger_lennier »

I think that if someone isn't well versed in the subject, they'll have trouble looking at a game and estimating how difficult it was to make. I've done a lot of programming, and I've followed the game development closely, so I have at least some idea of how much Matt and the other developers put into the project, both emotionally and in terms of hours of labor. It wasn't easy, and there was no guarantee of a big payoff at the end.
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evilkinggumby
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Re: 200 - Game Length and Content

Post by evilkinggumby »

matt wrote:As you mentioned in another thread, I do take criticism seriously, and a lot of my recent development diaries have been taking a look at the criticisms and trying to see what I could do better next time. Perhaps I just took some remarks you made personally - things about how the imagery is meaningless and how the game looks manufactured with no love.

While I take it seriously, I hope you'll understand that we probably won't change everything to make you happy with it. While you are critical of our animation style, I've only heard praise for it from others. I'm not talking about just on the forum (which I will admit is an extremely supportive and positive environment. I love you guys!), but at events like PAX and IndieCade.

On Neverending Nightmares, we wanted to make the story really vague to not distract from the emotional content. I think the next game will probably have more of a story focus, so we can add items to look at that will further the story like you suggested. I don't know if it will be possible because of budget constraints to make a big enough living and breathing world to satisfy you, but we will certainly try.

First, please don't take it personally. Try to take it as one possible way that gamers are viewing your game, and then ask " why might they think this?"

If I played the game and after everything, I didn't seem to find any meaning to a majority of the imagery, this isn't just a stab at you, it's also a chance to examine what is at the root of this. Now If the majority of your fans got every bit of imagery, if everyone generally understood the bulk of said imagery and there doesn't seem to be any confusion or problem, then your answer is that possibly only a select thick headed few just didn't get it (and choose to consider them next time, or pay them no mind). But if you have seen reports and statements from others that also didn't seem to understand, catch on, or properly appreciate/recognize your imagery, then it is a matter of thinking about why that is. And is that something you are ok with.

The same would be with my statement that it felt manufactured. That, I admit, may very well be just me and so if it is, you have no reason to care what 1 sole person states about your game. Just flip me off and tell me to go suck eggs and walk away. :) We're adults, I think I can take it.

And I will try to make this clear: I do not expect or anticipate being catered to, pandered to, or given my games on a silver platter. I am well aware that everything I hope, wish for and expect in a game is not necessarily what I'll get. EVER. The point of constructive criticism is to offer you insight and discussion about your creation, NOT to force my will and make you change it to what I want. I know often gamers can be like that and it's..atrocious. I more am looking to deconstruct what works, what doesn't, and what are the reasons. Thats not making demands of you, that's not having expectations for you to roll with everything I want, and it is not an attempt on destroying you and your teams credibility for the sake of "woo hoo i broke his spirit! now to drink his sweet sweet tears!!" lol It is more a conversation that begins to open up some critical thinking and possibilities to grow and advance as game developers and story tellers, of creative beings and also human beings.

I don't see any creative process as a straight line, but one that will have ups and downs, but (hopefully) will always strive to go more UP than DOWN in it's overall curve, seeking to advance and grow and mature in your medium. If you want your process to be a straight line with just 'status quo' as the best you'll ever do then I can understand how we're at odds with our goals. But if you want to move forward and up, please, try to look at the positives and not just at the negatives.
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matt
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Re: 200 - Game Length and Content

Post by matt »

I appreciate all constructive criticisms, and it seems like I read your message in a different tone than you intended, so I apologize for the error.
-Matt Gilgenbach
Lead Frightener at Infinitap Games
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