202 - Game Objectives

Developer diaries about creating Neverending Nightmares.
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evilkinggumby
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Re: 202 - Game Objectives

Post by evilkinggumby »

matt wrote:The TV industry has moved on to 4K as the next "innovation" that they hope consumers will warm up to. While you can get 3D TVs still, I think a lot of the newer ones don't have support. I hope they don't stop making 3D TVs completely, but I don't think the future looks bright.
strange that you think this. doing a simple search for 4k tv's on the best buy site, and filtering to just 3d ready tv's shows 32 models. removing the 3d flag gives a whopping.. 46. I wouldn't think that the majority of the 4k tv's are abandoning it.

Sony added in 3d bluray playback last July and does have some (though not a lot) of 3d games on their roster. Xbox One added it this past august. PC's have had 3d for years, and most modern cards have built in stereoscopic 3d capability.

How is it that the industry is abandoning it? I don't think we see a lot of 3d gaming on the newest consoles because they're already struggling to develop games that run and look awesome and at decent FPS on the hardware, adding in 3d where it has to render a scene 2x at slightly different angles, is going to take some serious tweaks to work. One of the articles I found cited this as well.
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matt
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Re: 202 - Game Objectives

Post by matt »

What is less important is what is currently available and what the NEW TVs are. I suspect a lot of the 3D TVs are old models. I didn't come to this conclusion on my own. There are many articles like this or this or this that talk about how 3D TV is dead and several say how the new focus is 4K.

Even if you just look at PS3 (and Sony was really pushing hard on the 3D content because they wanted to sell TVs), more recent titles lack the 3D feature. Uncharted 3 had it. The Last of Us did not. That seems like an easy feature to add into The Last of Us Remastered since the PS4 has better graphical horsepower and they can do 1080p60.

If you can do 1080p60, it is very likely you can support 3d at 60 fps because the HDMI standard only supports 720p60 or 1080p24. 1080p is over twice the pixels of 720p, so doing stereo rendering for 720p60 shouldn't be an issue (or at least they could do 30fps). Granted, that is an oversimplification because you have to render the scene twice, which increases other costs, but I think pretty much every game these days is bound by fill rate and the raw number of pixels rendered to the screen.
-Matt Gilgenbach
Lead Frightener at Infinitap Games
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evilkinggumby
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Re: 202 - Game Objectives

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Eh the first article admits late in the writing that 3d may not die and cites new advancements in the tech that could push it. the second feels more like anecdotal information based on his experiences and knowledge and the third.. is from jan 2013, not really going to believe an article from then, talking about an old tech con, from that far out. Especially when they cite 4k tv's as the next big thing and as I already stated, 3d is coming with most of those 4k tv's.

as it is that first article states a bit of what hurt 3d with early adopters were mfg's making it on less than ideal hardware or poor implementation. as a secondary feature ok a 4k tv, where the 3d can run at proper refresh, detail, and with adjustable tweaks (and less ghosting) it would be a richer and better experience on a finer detailed, better colored display. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw 3d continue to grow even if it's a bi-product of 4k.

4k is still a niche market, it's cost is well above even what 3d was at their time. still in time folk with older 720p and even 1080p tv's will have to start upgrading as the backlight's hit their lifespan and burn out. When they go to see what is to there they'll likely see choices of smart tv's, smart tv's with 3d or smart 4k 3d tv's. you can see where the market would shift over time just by the common choices.

all that said, i don't own a 3d tv(though my stereo could push it). And as of 2011 hdmi made cables (hdmi 1.4b could do 3d up to 1080p @ 120Hz (60 hz per eye) so in time as people replace old wires the standard will slowly change. I am not a 3d proponant, nor do i think it's just a fad. I honestly see it growing, albeit slowly, and becoming a staple of the industry for movies and gaming. it allows a new aspect to the experience, it is a method to charge more money and release products and entertainment multiple times for a variety of costs. And as it exists longer and longer artists and content creators are finding new and interesting ways to use and implement 3d. Jean-Luc Godard , longtime avante guard filmmaker, just released a film that breaks all kinds of rules with 3d, this year. and he is 85 :)
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matt
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Re: 202 - Game Objectives

Post by matt »

It's not a question of cables. There isn't a standardized 1080p60 format.

From here http://www.keydigital.com/KnowledgeCent ... .4_wp.html:
HDMI 1.4a requires that 3D displays support the following MANDATORY formats: the Frame Packing 3D format at either 720p60/50 or 1080p24/25, Side-by-Side Horizontal at 1080i60/50, and Top-and-Bottom Vertical at 720p60/50 or 1080p24/25.
While it is possible someone could do 1080p60 over the wire, I don't think they standardized anything but the mandatory formats, so no devices support it. It was my understanding that even though HDMI 1.4 supports a hell of a lot more bandwidth than 1080p60, but most electronics manufacturers used old HDMI chips that didn't actually increase the bandwidth and just updated the software to run 1.4.

I hope that you are right about 3D TV because I am a fan, but I personally am not holding my breath.
-Matt Gilgenbach
Lead Frightener at Infinitap Games
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evilkinggumby
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Re: 202 - Game Objectives

Post by evilkinggumby »

oh heck no. don't hold yer breath. it'd make the dev diary video's a lot less productive. :)
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